Brewing Success with Andrew Beckman: The Intersection of Brand, Design & Marketing

On this episode of The Pipeline Brew podcast, Matt Hummel is joined by Andrew Beckman, Design Director of his own agency, Beckman Design Studio.

Our first guest with a design focus, Andrew shares his journey from agency work to going independent and highlights some key lessons learned along the way. With many marketers often overlooking the importance of brand, today’s conversation focuses on its relationship with design and marketing in a holistic way.

Andrew is able to provide a unique window into the contrasting challenges faced by B2B & B2C organizations. He describes how larger and established consumer brands provide strict guardrails to work between whereas the world of B2B often offers more creative freedom from a design perspective. 

Throughout their conversation, Matt and Andrew stress how critical authenticity and meaningfulness is to standing out, especially in the saturated world we find ourselves in today. They also discuss the impact of AI on the design process and the critical role of strategy in successful branding. Stick around to hear how Andrew stokes his creative fire outside of his work.

Andrew Beckman is a design director passionate about drawing, music, storytelling, and the great outdoors. His curiosity drives a multidisciplinary skillset in brand identity, art direction, illustration, and motion. With 15 years of experience, he has led cross-functional teams and developed processes to build over 50 brands, driving impactful business outcomes, IPOs, and earning creative awards independently and with agencies.

Matt Hummel: [00:00:00] Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Pipeline Brew, the podcast that meets at the intersection of people and pipeline. We’re bringing you fun yet insightful conversations where you’ll not only hear from marketing experts, but also get to know them as well.

Matt Hummel: Hey everyone, today I am super excited to be joined by Andrew Beckman, a designer with over 15 years of experience, both in agencies and independently. Andrew recently took the leap to be fully independent with his own gig, Beckman Design Studio. I’ve known Andrew for a long time, and I’m excited to hear his perspective as our first design focused guest.

Matt Hummel: Welcome to the show, Andrew. How are you today?

Andrew Beckman: Hey, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on. Just super stoked to talk to you and have this conversation.

Matt Hummel: Absolutely. So if you’ve listened to the show before, you know, I like to kick off each episode with a little bit of an icebreaker. So you ready for that?

Matt Hummel: I’m ready. All right. What is your go to [00:01:00] beverage when you need a little pick me up?

Andrew Beckman: So I kind of have like an answer of like, If I’m out and about, that’s maybe more interesting than when I’m at home. So my wife and I visited Japan in 2018 and I got turned on to matcha. So if I’m working remote and I’m at a coffee shop, I love matcha.

Andrew Beckman: The boring answer is the reality answer is on a typical day, it’s just water. It’s sparkling water. It’s what I like to kind of just refresh and kind of get up and take a walk and have a sip. Hey, that’s awesome. So Japan, how was that trip? Oh man, it’s so awesome. It’s such a cool just place and it’s this kind of strange dichotomy of like feeling like you’re in the future, but also like there’s like this really old world aspect of it too and everything is so clean.

Andrew Beckman: The design is just so amazing. It’s really inspiring place to go.

Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. I was just going to ask you if there was some design inspiration that you took away. Yeah.

Andrew Beckman: Yeah, I mean, one of the first [00:02:00] apartments we stayed at in Kyoto was this really kind of small, but like really space efficient place.

Andrew Beckman: And the way that they had the dishes stacked, I will never forget. Like it was, everything is just super efficient, little trays and really capitalizing on the space. I’d love to kind of integrate some of those like little nuances. If we ever get the chance to renovate our home kitchen.

Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. So, and speaking of home, you’re based in Minneapolis, correct?

Andrew Beckman: Yeah, I’m in Minneapolis. Um, I’m actually, my wife and I have a little hobby farm. That’s about 30 miles West of Minneapolis.

Matt Hummel: Oh, that’s awesome. Well, shout out to my Minneapolis friends. So have a lot of them, as you know, from my time at Thomson Reuters. So, oh yeah, well, awesome. Great to have you on the show and look forward to jumping in your background here.

Matt Hummel: So. You know, do you want to start just kind of walking the audience through your background, your passions, hobby, you mentioned hobby farm. Yeah. What makes, what makes you, you?

Andrew Beckman: Yeah. So, you know, today I’m a designer art director. Um, I specialize in brand identity, [00:03:00] illustration, and 2d motion. And drawing has really always kind of been the center and at the heart of what I do, which really started all the way back from when I was a kid.

Andrew Beckman: I’d love to draw and make stuff and. I never really made that connection though, that you could get paid to be a creative person. And I remember on a trip to Disney animation studios, having this realization, like on this tour, I think it might’ve been Epcot or something that had like a little vignette of an animation studio that.

Andrew Beckman: I had this kind of moment of like, oh, like you can get paid to draw for a living. So I feel like I never realized that maybe some of my drawings would end up being advertisements and B2B logos instead of an animated character. But I’d like to think that like I still kind of try to maintain that like sense of optimism and play and kind of what I do today.

Andrew Beckman: So I’ve been doing what I do for roughly 15 years professionally, and my career is sort of broken into two halves, and I [00:04:00] feel like the first half was focused more on growing established brands, so mostly in the kind of B2C space, and primarily through things like advertising campaigns. Interactive design.

Andrew Beckman: I had the chance to work with some clients like Target, Red Baron, Quick Silver, Jack Link’s, Forever 21, Buffalo Wild Wings, all done at Minneapolis based agencies. I had a long tenure at one called Space 150 and another one called Olson. And, you know, Space 150, I had a ton of really fun. They kind of play in, in a really progressive and, you know, A lot of their projects are, are sort of odd, funny shaped asks.

Andrew Beckman: For example, they kind of specialized in these interactive Times Square billboards, so I got the chance to play with some interactive content for Forever 21 and the Coke billboards. I kind of learned After Effects through getting to work on the Quicksilver billboard [00:05:00] and doing all the motion graphics and animation for that.

Andrew Beckman: And then I also got a lot of exposure to creating social content, digital presence, um, and ad campaigns and commercials for Red Baron. I spent a lot of time working on that brand there as well. So that’s kind of like the first half. And then the more recent half, the last six years, I’ve spent building brands and leading teams at a really awesome agency, Superhuman, and that’s run by my longtime friend and mentor, Van Horgan.

Andrew Beckman: Van Horgan. And the bulk of that work is primarily for B2B brands, and most of them do kind of fall into that software and technology bucket. And through my time at Superhuman, I worked on North of 40 brands, really, since 2017, at least. So some of the callouts are PowerSchool, Logic Monitor, NetSpy, Definitive Healthcare, PacView, Spave, and Loyal, just to kind of [00:06:00] name a few.

Andrew Beckman: And I got to work alongside some really smart strategists and creative people and helped develop some really kind of robust processes and crafting intentional and engaging brands through that experience.

Matt Hummel: That is super cool. I mean, what a, you know, storied history you’ve had and some great brands you’ve gotten to work on both on the B2C and B2B side.

Matt Hummel: It’s interesting too, you know, thinking about your, obviously your career split between B2C but also B2B, but then you’ve got The split between growing versus building. And it’s really interesting if you were to have to pick a path to go down both, whether that’s B2B or B2C and then build or grow, which do you prefer?

Andrew Beckman: To be totally honest with you, and maybe this is kind of like a cop out answer, but like, I just kind of like whatever I’m not doing at the time. It’s like, the grass is always greener, so it’s like, if it’s a B2C [00:07:00] thing, it’s like, oh man, I kind of miss doing like a more buttoned up B2B thing. So, one of the really cool aspects of getting to work on B2B brands, at least in the past, like, four or five years is, A lot of them have been relatively unknown, and they’re growing more popular and sort of merging into kind of the greater, just kind of relevant space, like more people are interacting with B2B brands than ever before, but kind of early on, it was kind of fun to have clients that were willing to take creative leaps.

Andrew Beckman: And really affect the entire brand versus growing an established brand. Um, it’s a different creative challenge. You’re playing with a sandbox that someone else has established for you. So learning the rules there and trying to figure out where there’s some white space to do something interesting and kind of progress the brand and, but do it in the character in which that has been established.

Andrew Beckman: So you’re respecting kind of what’s done. Come [00:08:00] before and you’re, you’re kind of more of a student than an author, I feel like is kind of the big shift in the mentality, but both are fun to get to do.

Matt Hummel: That’s awesome. And I have to give you props because you totally avoided answering my question, but you know what you, you acknowledged, you acknowledged it as a cop out answer, but no, I’m just giving you our time.

Matt Hummel: I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that. So you want me to give you more specificity to it? No, no, we’re just going to move on because I, you know, I, I gave you a chance Andrew and that’s, that’s all, that’s all I’ve got for you. So, um, but no, I mean, look, you’ve, you’ve worked on some really cool brands, as I mentioned, both on the B2C and B2B side.

Matt Hummel: What are some of your key lessons you’ve learned that have shaped the designer that you are today?

Andrew Beckman: Yeah. I mean, I guess one of the big ones is just to really be open minded to the creative process. Yeah. A lot of times when you’re handed a brief, it’s easy to fall in love with your first idea. And whether you’re working on a B2B brand or a B2C brand, [00:09:00] really making sure you give yourself the time and space to kind of look under all the stones and consider some different possibilities before saying, it’s this first idea.

Andrew Beckman: I think that kind of applies to Kind of a wide ranging piece there.

Matt Hummel: That’s interesting on the topic of first concept. I’m sure from a customer point of view too, that’s also a challenge. I know having been on the receiving end of a number of creative concepts, you know, from yourself as well as other, um, agencies, I think oftentimes, you know, the first concept seems like you guys are leading with the best.

Matt Hummel: And then at times it’s sort of this. Second concept, we were like, I don’t know, is it’s not as good. So if we do a little insider baseball here. Is there truth that there’s one great concept that the agency really believes in and then there’s just another, you know, concept or two that because you just have to go through the motions or do you guys really, you know, good designers, are they really trying to think [00:10:00] completely different, nuanced concepts to put forward to a client?

Andrew Beckman: You’re really digging for me to divulge the secrets of the trade, aren’t you?

Matt Hummel: I am. I am.

Andrew Beckman: Honestly, I mean, everyone would have a different answer to that question. And for me personally, just because whatever you’re sharing, you need to believe in. We kind of have a joke among some of my partners that it’s like, if you show it, it will get picked.

Andrew Beckman: Yep. Yep. And so if you come, you know, with two concepts or three concepts, and there’s always that kind of, Direction that maybe didn’t get as much attention for whatever reason. Sometimes, like maybe it wasn’t overworked. Maybe there is a simplicity to it that was resonating in some way, but I, I really try to bring ideas that I really care about and believe in.

Andrew Beckman: And that’s kind of the challenge. Cause sometimes when you have that first idea, it’s like. Man, this is it and I can’t see it any other way. And then to kind of set that aside and start over is a real [00:11:00] challenge, but it’s also part of the fun. That’s a aspect of the job that I really like to be able to set it down and say, no, what if we re like we envisioned it this way?

Andrew Beckman: And there’s a really cool path there too.

Matt Hummel: That is really cool. I mean, it’s, it’s interesting to think about really well known established brands like Coca Cola, for example, and what if. Back when they were creating their brand identity, and obviously it’s evolved over the years, but if they’d gone a different path and just thinking about how that could have impacted it.

Matt Hummel: The direction they went down. But no, that, that makes sense. And I appreciate the, what did you say? If you, if you see it. Oh yeah. Yeah. If you show it, they’ll pick it. If you show it. Yep. That’s so true. We, we have something similar sort of on the, uh, on the messaging front where you always say, well, that’s what we call it internally.

Matt Hummel: It’s like, no, no, no. If you say something internally, it will also be your external message. So I can totally relate. Well, Andrew, we’ve talked a lot on this show about different marketing trends and strategies, but we haven’t had the opportunity to dive deep into the brand side of things, [00:12:00] which arguably is the most basic, but also the most critical element of it all.

Matt Hummel: So I’d love to, you know, pick your brain on this. And can you start off by just telling us your perspective on brand and how it relates to marketing in a holistic way?

Andrew Beckman: Yeah. Well, a lot of times, like when people think about brands, like it’s kind of an easy pitfall that people just immediately think of just a logo or just a tagline or a phrase or a look or Whatever the kind of thing is and there’s some truth to that like that is a brand but a brand is a lot bigger than that and really from the moment that it’s released from the agency world or the client world it’s like brands are ideas and their perceptions that exist in the collective consciousness like There’s millions of different copies of Nike in all of our brains, um, and they’re all correct, but they’re all kind of are touching on different pieces of something that is consistent.

Andrew Beckman: But when you really rewind things, The practice of branding is an ancient form of [00:13:00] differentiation. So at its most fundamental level, the core purpose of branding is to stand apart. So your stuff, my stuff, not unlike the labeling system used by college roommates in their refrigerators. But I mean, the modern landscape today has obviously evolved to be much more complex than just that essence of distinction.

Andrew Beckman: That essence is still really true. And although it seems kind of basic. And easy, it’s really not because a lot of companies strive to be category leaders, but kind of like, you know, like I kind of have that picture in my head of braving the diving board for the first time. And it’s like, when you’re seeing other people do it, jumping into the pool, like that can feel a little scary when it’s your turn to take the leap.

Andrew Beckman: And every industry sort of has it’s cliches and it’s visual benchmarks that everyone tries to emulate. People are just afraid to be the other, to be different, to be labeled [00:14:00] as weird, to stand out in a negative way. It’s kind of that core human desire to be accepted. Having that courage to be different, I think, is just the first step.

Andrew Beckman: And kind of the reason branding matters is more about building trust in addition to just being different. So only focusing on making your brand distinct. doesn’t automatically make it good. Like something that kind of comes to mind is like seeing a really like progressive piece of modern art or like seeing a movie that like was maybe like drinking too much of its own Kool Aid and it gets really esoteric or something like that.

Andrew Beckman: Yeah. Where, you know, it’s done its job of being weird and different, but it doesn’t make sense to the average person. And if you’re creating something that’s too complex and too different, It can make people feel rejected or dumb. And this is why it’s so important that simple [00:15:00] ideas in messaging really matter.

Andrew Beckman: It’s also why having a really strong strategic foundation to work with, to build your brand on, specifically on some kind of human truth, matters. Because sort of as the saying goes, You only get one first impression, and one of the cool aspects of getting to work on the visual identity portion of a brand is that we are kind of the first impression, like seeing the logo, seeing the brand identity.

Andrew Beckman: That’s typically the first impression that someone sees when they are forming their perception of an evolved, a new, or a refreshed brand. And so when they do that, an effective brand should really resonate when they are encountering that. It should connect with people, it should draw them in, and not just because it’s beautiful, but because hopefully there’s some kind of spark from that simple message or that core idea.

Andrew Beckman: And that emotional connection and that moment of understanding and recognition is part of the human [00:16:00] experience. So, in kind of contrast to the strange movie or the weird piece of art that makes you feel dumb, there’s this welcomed understanding and belonging that you’ve kind of conjured. And so, kind of more simply put, it’s like the simplicity builds understanding, and understanding builds trust.

Andrew Beckman: And that trust is what ultimately leads to loyalty. And so you know you’ve built a successful brand when people trust it, and they want to be associated with it. They’re wearing it. They’re asking for, you know, Coke instead of Pepsi, and choosing water when the waitress says, Sorry, we only have Pepsi. It’s kind of the real power of branding and how that really syncs with marketing.

Andrew Beckman: Because, you know, if you have a strong brand story, Campaign concepts, marketing executions, all those kind of applications should just be a reinforcement and a reminder of your brand story.

Matt Hummel: I love [00:17:00] that. There’s so much wisdom in what you just shared and having been through, you know, a handful of brand strategy projects.

Matt Hummel: I can say it is significantly more complex and involved than I think most people who have not been through one realize. It’s really not just, you know, what looks good? What do you think about these colors and these fonts and these images? It’s, there’s so much to the strategic and that’s why I think, Building a brand strategically is so important.

Matt Hummel: It’s interesting though, because there are a couple of things, I was taking some notes here that you said that I wanted to double click on, you know, one was, it was my interpretation of what you said, which is don’t just be weird for weird sake. And I totally agree because I think a key part of a good brand is the authenticity of it.

Matt Hummel: Right. And so being weird for weird sake or being different for different sake, If it’s disingenuous to you as a brand, it’s not going to, you know, meet those objectives that you outline, which is really, you want to associate yourself with that brand, which creates loyalty. And that’s so [00:18:00] critical in the B2B world where.

Matt Hummel: You know, managing your churn, managing your existing customers is so important, right? And so creating that trust and ultimately advocacy is so important. One of the things I wanted to ask you about, though, is take Martek, for example, the last number I saw, I think we’re close to 15, 000 unique Martek solutions in market right now.

Matt Hummel: And with AI, you know, Gen AI being such a driver of new tech in market. How do you actually stand out in such a crowded market when it’s not just solution X and solution Y? It’s solution A through, you know, Z times 100, right? You’ve got thousands of competitive solutions out there. They’re all volleying for the same money, the same audience.

Matt Hummel: How do you differentiate when it’s such a crowded market to play in? Is that a bigger challenge today than it was?

Andrew Beckman: I don’t know if it is, and honestly, like, I think whether it’s AI or it’s some other new technology, like, it’s always going to be [00:19:00] a struggle to keep up, because technology and business, it’s just constantly changing, which is why I feel like I always just fall back on brand, and like, why it’s important to have such a great brand foundation.

Andrew Beckman: If you have a sound strategy that’s rooted in a human truth, like I was saying, that’s connecting with people. It’s not like bulletproof that it’s timeless, but there is a timeless aspect to it. And so, you know, whatever the world or the technology or the business problem is that we know is going to change tomorrow, it’s going to change even faster.

Andrew Beckman: If your brand is sort of grounded on belief, you know who you are, you know why your brand does what it does. I feel like in theory that should help materialize relevant solutions regardless of the scenario.

Matt Hummel: That makes sense. So it all, it all goes back to, you know, don’t put the cart before the horse, start with strategy, nail the strategy, nail who you are, what makes you different.

Matt Hummel: And then let that drive into, call it the [00:20:00] visual or verbal output of, of the strategy.

Andrew Beckman: For sure. And just asking yourself, like, is this what our brand should do? Yep. Like almost thinking of the brand as a person and it’s like, would our brand act this way?

Matt Hummel: Yep. Yep. I love that. Well, great. Well, I want to transition now, you know, specifically into the B2B world and, you know, what makes great B2B design and, you know, can you share any anecdotes that you may have from some great projects you’ve been involved with and, and how they were specifically impactful?

Andrew Beckman: Yeah, so I mean, well, first of all, B2B brands do have their own unique set of business problems, but maybe this is being a broken record, but I kind of reject the idea that B2B brand design needs to be philosophically different than any other kind of brand design. Sort of like we were talking about when, you know, there’s this philosophy and approaching brand that every brand wants to build trust, and that just takes a different shape based on the industry.

Andrew Beckman: In this case, it’s B2B. But, [00:21:00] I mean, when any person or business owner considering making an investment in a B2B platform or product, they’re encountering brand in the same way that, you know, a consumer is. Through their social feeds, walking down the street in an airport, and they’re responding to that creative however they’re, you know, being targeted or encountering it.

Andrew Beckman: In mostly a binary way and whether it’s conscious or subconscious, they’re making choices. Is this cool? Is it relevant? Is it, is it helpful? Is it bad? There’s that judgment that is happening there. And that’s why it’s important to kind of have some of those core philosophies in place. Is it connecting on a human level?

Andrew Beckman: That’s kind of hurdle number one. Is it just breaking through and resonating with the audience? Or is it fading into the background of the B2B category cliches? Which there are ample B2B category cliches like the white and blue and orange. Yep. You know, all the abstract kind of logos, all the stock photography, floating outdated Apple [00:22:00] devices that, Have even more outdated UI product screenshots.

Andrew Beckman: We’ve all seen it.

Matt Hummel: That makes sense. And it’s, it’s funny on the, you know, you mentioned sort of walking around and seeing billboards or seeing, um, different creatives and, and how that can resonate, you know, just a quick anecdote for my end. So obviously I’m a marketer. I have been trying to mentor my kids not to become marketers, do something more stable, like, like finance or accounting.

Matt Hummel: And yet they seem to gravitate towards marketing. And so, you know, when we’re watching TV, they’ll see a commercial oftentimes and like, Oh, I don’t like that commercial dad. And I’m like, that’s probably because you would never go to that restaurant or buy those clothes or drive that car. And so there is that.

Matt Hummel: You know, it’s sort of this notion that not all brands are meant to attract everybody, right? And so really, I think a brand’s ability to turn on a customer as much as turn off a customer is important because, you know, what you understand, this is my category, this is who [00:23:00] I’m targeting and not that any brand wouldn’t want to sell to anyone, right?

Matt Hummel: But at the end of the day, there is sort of, you know, your lane and if you’ve, if you’ve done, I think, a great job. You are really attracting or engaging the right audience as much as you are sort of steering away the folks that aren’t intended to buy from you. Is that fair to say?

Andrew Beckman: I think so. I mean, I have some core tenets that I like to stick to from a design philosophy.

Andrew Beckman: Maybe calling them qualifiers versus tenets is maybe a better word. When just evaluating the effectiveness of a design. And I feel like if you’re hitting some of these, you should have a wider appeal. Yes, having a target audience is important. I don’t necessarily know if it’s Something where it’s like it’s turning people off or there’s no like the average person isn’t like, oh yeah, like that’s at least interesting or maybe it’s not for me, but like I can still appreciate it.

Andrew Beckman: But yeah, I feel like whatever the solution is, it should be [00:24:00] rooted in some kind of meaning. Um, it should have a north star. It should have a reason for existing, you know, visuals without substance are kind of just reduced to their aesthetics. And, you know, the difference between art and design is design is about solving a problem and art is about self expression.

Andrew Beckman: So, having meaning provides a little bit more of a deeper perspective that will foster bigger conversations. I think just on the surface, great design should resonate with people. And make them feel something, try to set out to conjure a feeling and create something that’s worthy of being remembered and have this kind of clear, compelling, intentional feeling.

Andrew Beckman: It’s like in a great movie, it’s like they’ll sometimes even do focus groups to, or, or screeners to see how the audience is reacting and which is a pretty wide appeal and there are different ways to convey specific things that you’re trying to get at. I think it should be well crafted, like details really matter.

Andrew Beckman: [00:25:00] Making sure that you’re putting care into it. I think that’s another undeniable thing that, you know, anyone can appreciate. And then finally, I think great creative work and great design considers its context. Where is it showing up? Is it built in a way that’s smart enough where it can flex and, you know, respond to the different spaces and places that it’s going to show up?

Andrew Beckman: And ultimately, is it kind of providing a solution of the problem it was intended to solve? I kind of feel like, you know, those four things, meaning, resonance, Craft and context. If you’re hitting on those things, I think a lot of, kind of, there’s, there’s a universal appeal to those things that should kind of reach a consensus with a wider audience.

Matt Hummel: Mm hmm. That makes sense. Well, I have a bit of a curveball question for you as, as we’ve been talking, something came to mind and You know, a lot of, a lot of CMOs, especially in, you know, the private equity world, when they take over, they’re sort of the joke, well, new CMO means new brand, new [00:26:00] website. Do you have a point of view on when should a company consider or, you know, actually go through a rebrand?

Matt Hummel: And then from there, how do you know if it should be a evolution or a revolution?

Andrew Beckman: Yeah, that’s a great question. And, uh, the answer is you should just hire me and always redo your brand. No, I’m just kidding.

Matt Hummel: Visit Andrew at Andrew Beckman. com. Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Beckman: The suggestion is like potentially updating your brand every two to five years.

Andrew Beckman: But I’ve noticed it a lot specifically in the B2B world and the B2B tech world, like you’re saying, it’s a new CMO, so it’s, we’re burning the whole thing down, and again, a lot of times, it’s, you know, I guess I’m not in all the conversations, but my conjecture is that someone wants to put their stamp on it and kind of make it their own, and I understand that to a certain degree, because you want your team and you want the organization to Really, you know, believe what it’s doing.

Andrew Beckman: [00:27:00] That’s kind of where like objectivity and subjectivity kind of comes into play. And that’s why meaning is so important. It’s why strategy is so important. So, you know, when you’re starting those conversations around just aesthetic. You know, like I don’t like blue, you know, I’m the new CMO. I don’t like the color blue.

Andrew Beckman: I like green, you know, we should be green. It’s like, okay, but like, take a look at the strategic positioning and the name of our company is blue sky, you know, or there there’s some other reason, or we’re all about envisioning new possibilities. That’s our purpose for being or something like that. I feel like there’s a lot of groundwork.

Andrew Beckman: And a lot of thought that goes into these branding projects. And sometimes it feels like the decisions are made really quickly versus building on top of thinking that is really genuine and maybe it could be updated, but seeing, I’ve seen a lot of brands and brands that I’ve worked on. That I’m really proud of kind of just get thrown [00:28:00] in the trash and they just move on and do something else.

Andrew Beckman: Um, and I’ve seen it with brands that I aspire at, like mentors and, you know, other agencies that I admire. I’ve seen the same thing happen. Like no one is safe. Really to that churn, but you know, I guess to just put it out into the universe, I would just, as far as determining, you know, you’re a new CMO, you’re, you’re evaluating what you should do.

Andrew Beckman: I think that doing some good research and strategic surveying of how is the brand resonating? What is the response? Are there, you know, marks? Are there characters? Is there a world that’s interesting that has equity that people really care about? Because, you know, are you making a subjective decision to, you know, change it from blue to green?

Andrew Beckman: Or is there a real business problem and a business solution that, you know, you want to pivot towards a different audience. You want to strategize towards attracting a different customer. So you’re going to shift your foundation. I feel like if you’re kind of modifying like where [00:29:00] you’re going as an organization, I feel like that’s kind of the time where it’s like.

Andrew Beckman: You know, there’s a groundswell here. It’s a whole new team of people. We have different beliefs. We want to go in a different direction. I feel like that’s kind of more of the revolutionary mindset, whereas the evolutionary mindset should be, we’re established. We have beloved assets. We’ve created this series of characters, or we’ve become known for this certain kind of content we started putting out to then just pull the plug on that, kind of, a lot of times feels like that could have been built on, it could have been evolved, it could have been preserved.

Andrew Beckman: Yeah,

Matt Hummel: that’s, it’s, again, such a great perspective. And I think one of my key takeaways is having been a new CMO at a couple companies, you come in, and if you don’t appreciate the history of the brand and sort of the customer sentiment, and you just want to completely evolve the brand, take it a totally different direction, you may be new to the brand as a CMO, but your customers are [00:30:00] not.

Matt Hummel: And if the business has been around 5, 10, 15 years, You’re really sort of ignoring, in a sense, the history of the brand and what’s made them successful to the point they are today. Maybe the business or the, you know, the company still needs some sort of a refresh or an update. Maybe it does need to rebrand for some of the business cases that you outlined.

Matt Hummel: But I think again, sort of putting the customer at the center is something that is so often missed in marketing, but I think probably is often missed when it comes to the rebranding decision. So great perspective there. Appreciate that for sure. All right. Last question before I want to jump into our last segment.

Matt Hummel: So, AI. AI is a hot topic everywhere you look, right? So I have no doubt that it’s also, you know, super relevant for you. I just updated my iPhone. Apparently I’ve got some AI capabilities now. I don’t really know what those are. What are you seeing? How are you using AI? What do you think the future of design is with respect to the digital transformation that is Gen [00:31:00] AI.

Matt Hummel: Just a small question to end our segment.

Andrew Beckman: A

Matt Hummel: small question. Yeah. Just a, just a, you know, a lob.

Andrew Beckman: Well, yeah. I mean, I won’t lie that I haven’t wrestled with some amount of anxiety around AI. I’ve seen what it can do. It’s really powerful. But I feel like the good news is that I will say that the more I use AI tools and kind of familiarize myself with them, the less afraid of it I become.

Andrew Beckman: And, you know, maybe there’s like a bigger life lesson somewhere in there, but you know, there’s certain things in our control. There’s certain things out of our control. And the first of them being, um, that’s out of our control is that You know, AI in its current state is the worst it’ll ever be, you know, from this point forward.

Andrew Beckman: So it’s only going to get better. I feel like because you can’t change that, you know, you’re either going to ignore it and, you know, let it kind of creep up and, and kind of overtake you, or you can embrace it and develop an understanding of what it’s great for and what it’s not. And I’ve [00:32:00] actually had a lot of Adobe’s AI tools, um, in addition to like chat GPT.

Andrew Beckman: You know, extending backgrounds in Photoshop. As an illustrator, um, I’ve used Firefly to assist in developing specific compositions and layouts. Um, I was just working on, uh, an illustration project that, um, funny enough and ironically enough needed some, like, very anatomically correct drawings. And so, like, using some of the AI tools to help me kind of generate, you know, like a body shape or a hand was really helpful, um, to get the right angle.

Andrew Beckman: And you know, Figma has a ton of tools and you know, there’s honestly a lot more that I could be doing to integrate it. And you also kind of know when it hits its limitations, like everyone’s seen the nightmare fuel that it can produce somebody with three heads or too many fingers or like that kind of thing.

Andrew Beckman: Um, so I’ve noticed it’s better with like organic generative shapes, like extending a forest versus like giving someone a leg that’s cut off in a photo or something. [00:33:00] But there are a couple of things that I sort of. know that are in my control that I try to keep in mind when I’m using it. I would say the first is kind of to refuse to compromise on my creative vision.

Andrew Beckman: I think when you’re You know, in this kind of reactive mode of like leaning on something that’s being generated, you know, it’s easy to kind of settle for something that’s good enough. And I sort of reject this idea of having to cut corners or get sloppy. Doing things really fast is kind of the opposite on the spectrum of like where quality sits.

Andrew Beckman: The second thing is I like staying and prioritizing a maker mindset and leaning too heavily into generative AI. As a solution versus a tool kind of puts you in this like shopper consumer mindset of like, I want to get this thing. I’m lazy versus a maker mentality of like, you know, I want to champion imperfection and I want to champion, you know, like a human soul that, [00:34:00] you know, gives work it’s heart and ultimately like making sure that you’re using it to embrace that originality and imperfection.

Andrew Beckman: There’s just some things that like a computer can’t do. I’ve tried to embrace, um, since being independent, like a daily art practice to get in touch with more of the art side of my creativity. I’ve been getting into painting and, you know, that kind of thing, drawing a lot more. And there’s just a personal satisfaction you get from working with your hands and using real paints and sketching on paper that no person or a machine can copy.

Andrew Beckman: So,

Matt Hummel: you know,

Andrew Beckman: there’s, there’s something to that originality and, you know, even that’s relative, you know, originality is, is completely relative, but You can kind of try to kind of chase after it and making sure you’re riffing on inspiration and not directly ripping something off. But there’s just something mysteriously kind of special about work that’s produced by hand.

Andrew Beckman: So making sure that like, Ultimately, you know, you’re using AI, generative [00:35:00] AI as a kind of digital sketchbook. It’s an ideation tool. It’s going to speed up your workflow, but make sure that you’re keeping the human mind and the heart behind that tool. That’s going to drive your vision for whatever your project is.

Matt Hummel: That’s fascinating. It’s not all that different than the conversations I’ve had around the use of gen AI with content creation. So. You’re welcome. I’m still a believer that, you know, humans are very much needed at the front end and really throughout, whether it’s content creation, design, you know, take any use case, at least today.

Matt Hummel: And yeah, it’ll be interesting. I feel like we could, we could have a whole other topic just dedicated to, uh, to Gen AI, but we’ll save that for the next conversation. So I’m ready to jump to our last segment called what’s on tap. So perfect. What’s on tap for Andrew. At the top of the show, we talked about your favorite pick me up beverage, which, as a reminder, is matcha or sparkling water.

Matt Hummel: So I want to flip that question around. By the way, sparkling water, speaking of, you know, a whole brand conversation and the amount of money that gets [00:36:00] spent on it and the amount of I think the power of branding when it comes to sparkling water, it’s water that sparkles and yet there’s 400 different kinds on your shelf and they charge 12, you know, for a case, whatever, but totally, I digress.

Matt Hummel: Yeah, absolutely. Let me flip that question around. What is your favorite drink when you need to unwind?

Andrew Beckman: Um, you know, I like, you know, I’m a Minnesota kid, like born and raised. So, you know, I like just like a basic lager, pilsner situation if I’m having beer, like a hams, PBR, that kind of category. If I’m going a little fancier, maybe like a smoky old fashioned,

Matt Hummel: something in that category.

Matt Hummel: So PBR or an old fashioned, very different, very distinct. Now do you, do you have your own, uh, Smoking kit to make your old fashions.

Andrew Beckman: I do not know, but we have an incredible local barbecue joint down the [00:37:00] road from us that makes a really awesome one.

Matt Hummel: Oh, awesome. Well, cool. So obviously you live in Minneapolis.

Matt Hummel: We’ve talked about that, which I personally consider an underrated part of the country in many respects. So you were born and raised there, did you meet your wife living there as well?

Andrew Beckman: So my wife grew up 30 minutes away from me, but we actually met at UW Stout in Wisconsin where we went to design school, so she’s a designer too.

Andrew Beckman: Uh, does home trend design for Target Corporation.

Matt Hummel: Oh, that’s very cool. So how do you, you know, it gets really cold in Minneapolis, I don’t know if you realize that. How do you keep your creative juices flowing out there? What, what inspires you day to day?

Andrew Beckman: So I mean, you know, both my wife and I, we’re Minnesota natives and our family’s here and so it’s kind of what we know.

Andrew Beckman: Honestly, like the winter conversation is kind of the deciding factor on like whether or not you can live here and we just love it. Like we just embrace it. I know a lot of people say this is a cliche, but I actually really [00:38:00] feel like I appreciate the seasons. Like they’re so like telegraph, you know, like typical, I mean this past winter we didn’t really get any snow, which is crazy.

Andrew Beckman: But typically you’ve got the, you know, rich leaves and the snow and the budding flowers and the hot summers. So we get a little taste of everything, but in the winter, um, we love to hike and we have 10 acres so we can cross country ski out the back door. So you kind of just have to embrace it and take the dogs out and be out there.

Andrew Beckman: Cause if, if you don’t, you know, brave the cold, you’re stuck inside, you know, and then, then it’s miserable.

Matt Hummel: No, I get it. Look, my wife and I grew up in Texas. And, you know, it wasn’t the winters, it was the summers. And that was the deciding factor. And after, after, uh, I mean, I’m, I’m only 29. So after the 29 years, just kidding.

Matt Hummel: Uh, we decided we just, we just can’t do this anymore. We can’t live with the 110, 90 percent humidity days. And so that’s what. That’s what, you know, ultimately had us pack our bags and head to the [00:39:00] mountains. So, but I can, I can appreciate that. Yeah. You really just have to embrace it. So we’ll ask last question for you.

Matt Hummel: I know you’re a drummer. I know we’re not on video, but for those who can’t see, you’ve got a sweet drum set in your background. It’s fair to say, you know, music is certainly a form of art. What got you into drumming and are you part of a band? You have any shows coming up? Well, you know, I think music

Andrew Beckman: and sound are just like completely tethered to visual expression for me.

Andrew Beckman: Like I don’t really kind of see one without the other. I actually, was inspired to be a drummer. I saw Rafi, who was like a kid singer when I was really little and had a drummer. It was like a VHS. I’m like, I want to play that. So, you know, through like high school, college, I played in some metal bands and I never did like, you know, major touring or anything like that.

Andrew Beckman: But, you know, we played a decent amount of shows and I just really love the energy of playing live and jamming with other people. And one of the kind of memories that like stands [00:40:00] out in my mind playing with my college band, we’d had like an album release show and it was at this town hall in like a rural Wisconsin town.

Andrew Beckman: It kind of feels like I dreamt it, honestly. It was like such a like unique situation, like a unique stage. And it had unique acoustics. There was like a decent crowd, but the thing that sticks out to me is I just remember how tight and well rehearsed we were because we had just recorded this album and we had practiced all the parts really well.

Andrew Beckman: And, you know, there was air between the notes on some of the heavy parts and. We’re just having a good time and you know, I just, I just think there’s something really magical about making and enjoying art with people that you care about. I don’t think there’s anything really better than that and it’s been really awesome.

Andrew Beckman: I’ve recently been kind of starting to play again and there’s a local uh, brewery near my house that does like an open jam night on Wednesday nights and it’s become a really awesome community. Like different people get on stage, you never really know what people are going to play. Sometimes they do.

Andrew Beckman: [00:41:00] Sometimes a guy says, Hey, I’m going to play, you know, Foo Fighters or whatever. And you kind of get up there and there’s rotating drummers and guitar players, but music is great. And it really connects people. So.

Matt Hummel: Love it. Well, funny story on my end, and then, and then we’ll wrap up. So similar to you, when I was a kid, we were at Six Flags, my brother and I, and my parents, I don’t know why they did this to us.

Matt Hummel: But there was something where you could go into this, you know, green room. They’d pick an artist. They had guitars, drums, you name it. Yeah. My parents picked Amy Grant’s Baby Baby and put me on the drums. And there, you know, rumor has it there’s a VHS out there with my brother and I playing Baby Baby by Amy Grant.

Matt Hummel: And I’m playing the drums. It is so bad. So when I first started dating my now wife, she came over to my parents house, which, you know, was, was a mistake clearly because first thing they did was bust out the VHS and how my wife decided to stay with me after seeing that, I still don’t know, but [00:42:00] you know, our careers took different paths because I did not end up being a drummer, but I digress.

Matt Hummel: So. Well, Andrew, this has been an awesome conversation. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show today. And I know our audience is going to get a ton out of it. So thank you again. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Enjoy the rest of your day. Same to you.

Matt Hummel: Thanks again to Andrew for joining us on today’s episode of the Pipeline Brew. I hope you all enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. Please leave me a comment with your thoughts. And make sure you subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode. Once again, I’m Matt Hummel, and I’ll see you next time.